2. Kenneth Charles

Gallery of Kenneth Charles Joy and family

Kenneth Charles Joy was born in 1902, the first child of John Charles Joy and his wife Edith Florence (nee Hicks). According to his Naval military enlistment, Kenneth gave his place of birth as being Penshurst on the Illawarra Line NSW.  Father, John, was from Sydney, and Kenneth‘s mother,  Edith, had grown up in Thirroul. Kenneth‘s grandfather, Alfred George  Joy, who had married Jeanett Newlands, had been a railway man – however Kenneth’s father John worked in the legal field, and had possibly been appointed as Council Auditor to Hurstville Council after the 1904 Council Elections. More on the Joy Family History and Family Tree.

Marjorie Louise Tolner Kenneth Charles Joy 1930s - engaged?

Marjory Louisa Tollner and  Kenneth Charles Joy 1930s – Engagement Day – at Penshurst home of Kenneth’s mother, Edith Florence Joy (Hicks).

Kenneth’s North Illawarra Family Pioneers – The Hicks and McKenzie Families

Kenneth‘s mother, Edith,  was the 12th of the 14 children of former North Illawarra Council Alderman, Captain Henry Thomas Hicks JP and his wife Mary Ann, nee McKenzie.  As the local Council Alderman, Henry had also presided over the opening of Thirroul Public School in 1889. Kenneth’s Grandfather Henry  had also been active in lobbying for the creation of the Bulli Shire Council. Henry  must have been a real dynamo – he’d also been an original Warden of St Augustine’s Anglican Church Bulli, where Kenneth‘s granddaughter Marissa would be married, about a century later.

Kenneth‘s Uncle Alexander Hicks had also been Mayor of the North Illawarra Council and President of the Illawarra Mine Employees Association, ie early Miners Federation – at the time of the Mount Kembla Mine Disaster. As North Illawarra Council Mayor, Kenneth’s Uncle Alexander spoke at the Memorial Service and gave evidence at the Inquiry, after the Mount Kembla Mine Disaster.

One of Kenneth’s Uncles, Captain George Hicks was a Boer War and WWI  Light Horse hero who had been at Gallipoli and in the Middle East. And Kenneth’s Uncle Henry Thomas Hicks (Jnr) had also been an Army Captain in WWI. Captain Henry Thomas Hicks (Jnr) and his wife Eva had owned “Glen Roy” in Station St Thirroul.

And Kenneth was the great grandson of Northern Illawarra pioneers, James and Margaret Hicks, who finally moved permanently to the area in 1842.  James Hicks had bought Captain Robert Westmacott’s northern suburbs property in Austinmer, extending from Moore St to the Headlands Hotel locality, and including the home “Sidmouth”, after the entrepreneurial Westmacott had gone bankrupt. Years later “Sidmouth” was demolished by subsequent owners, and replaced with “Rathane” in The Grove, Austinmer. Kenneth’s Great Grandfather James Hicks had also lobbied for the establishment of Austinmer Public School in the 1860’s.

Kenneth had Scottish heritage too,  his Scottish great grandparents had been “Bounty” immigrants, viz  Alexander McKenzie and wife Ann (nee McLean) with their children. They had sailed from the Isle of Skye, Scotland on the William Nicol – arriving in the Illawarra in 1837. Ken’s grandmother, Mary Ann Hicks (McKenzie) had been the first  of their Australian born children, born in their new Para Meadow home in the  Illawarra in 1839. (Note – details on Kenneth’s  Joy and Newlands ancestors still to be added – sometime in the future !)

Kenneth's Parents John Charles Joy  Edith Florence Joy Stanwell Park  prior to their marriage in 1897

Cabinet Card photograph of Kenneth’s Parents John Charles Joy and Edith Florence Hicks at Stanwell Park in 1897 prior to their marriage in 1901

Kenneth and Molly Joy’s Family in Penshurst

Kenneth’s  sister, “Molly” Mary Constance was born in 1906, and the family lived in Penshurst.  It appeared that life would have been quite comfortable for John and Edith‘s family. Kenneth’s daughter, Margaret fondly remembers visiting their house, and that it was quite large.

Kenneth Charles Joy and Mary Constance Joy pre 1910

Kenneth Charles Joy and his sister “Molly” Mary Constance Joy pre 1910

Kenneth’s father, John, died in 1910, when Kenneth, and his sister Molly, were both still quite young. This followed the earlier 1909 death of Edith’s father, their grandfather, Captain Henry Thomas Hicks JP. Not surprisingly Edith and her children visited, and lived, at various times in Thirroul, from 1910  until 1930, with Grandmother Mary Ann Hicks, at her home “Everest”, in Seaview Terrace Thirroul. Later Kenneth and Molly‘s mother, Edith returned to her hometown, Thirroul, in the late 1940’s.

Navy Years

In March 1917,  during WWI, Kenneth put his age up, and enlisted in the Navy as a “boy” – specifically as Boy 2nd Class – see enlistment & service details – see also Volunteers Register.  However he was still under age for the duration of WWI and was only able to serve as a Navy “man” after the end of WWI. In all, he would spend nine years in the Navy from 1917, until discharge in 1926. Kenneth’s military records were a little difficult to track down because he had enlisted as a “boy” during the WWI years – ie consequently his records are held by the National Archives of Australia, rather than by the Australian War Memorial.

Initially Kenneth served on the HMAS Tingira – which was a training ship able to take on 250 boys – but mostly it only had 200 boys at any one time. He would return there later to serve his final years in the Navy. A photograph of Kenneth in sailor uniform with his family (see below) was labelled as 1915 – but could have been during 1917-1919.

Mary Ann Hicks with Children Grandchildren 1915 Rear Mary Constance Joy - Mary Alice Hicks - Edith Florence Joy - Kenneth Charles Joy Front - Unknown Unknown Mary Ann Hicks Unknown Unknown Unknown

Mary Ann Hicks with Children Grandchildren 1915 or 1917-1919?
Rear Mary Constance Joy – “Biddy” Mary Alice Hicks – Edith Florence Joy – Kenneth Charles Joy
Front – Unknown (Possibly Daphne Josephine Hicks?) Unknown (Possibly John Henry Hicks ?) Mary Ann Hicks Unknown (possibly Gwynneth Mary Webb) Unknown Unknown (possibly Enid Rhys Webb)

Kenneth’s Navy Service postings – Ships as a Boy in the Navy

  • HMAS Tingira – training ship including for boys in the Navy – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMAS_Tingira – 12/3/1917 – 1/2/1918 – he was promoted from Boy 2nd Class to Boy 1st Class on 2/11/1917
  • in November 1917 he had sought to purchase a discharge under REGULATIONS UNDER THE NAVAL DEFENCE ACT 1910-1918, but this was not approved.
    (a) Seamen boys are entered between the ages of 14 and 16, and carry out twelve months training in H-M-A- ship “Tingira”| moored in Sydney Harbor). They
    are then sent to a seagoing ship to complete training.
    (b) Youths between the ages of 18 and 25 are entered as stokers and after a  preliminary training at the Naval Depot, Williamstown are sent to sea going ships,
  • a Depot (hard to decipher from Service Record) – 2/2/1918 – 11/4/1918
  •  he served on the Sydney, (which had sunk the Emden in 1914) over the period April 1918 – January 1920.  During the period  12/4/1918 – 17/12/1918 he was overseas on the Sydney when she saw active service with an engagement in Helgoland Bight in June 1918, in WW1. This earned the Sydney its  North Sea 1917 – 1918 WW1 Battle Honours, and made Ken’s family eligible for Legacy support, should they ever need it – which they did from 1952.

Kenneth’s Navy Service postings – Ships as a Navy Man

Kenneth had certainly served aboard quite a few of the Navy’s ships. After WWI some of these would be sold or scrapped as part of the military downsizing. This downsizing of the Australian military capability would be heavily criticised in the bid to wage WWII, and in the years following.

There are a number of undated photographs of Kenneth in family albums – but always a very happy smiling and very tall man – no wonder Marjory must have fallen in love with him.

Kenneth was a much loved uncle to the children of sister “Molly” Mary Constance Callcott

Toddler Joan Callcott with Uncle Kenneth Charles Joy - at Penshurst home of Edith Florence Joy 1930's

Toddler Joan Callcott with Uncle Kenneth Charles Joy – at Penshurst home of Edith Florence Joy 1930’s

An undated photograph of Kenneth – during his Navy days ? Or during his NSW Railway years ? However a clue is that the photograph was printed in Cootamundra – which would be unlikely for his naval period.

Kenneth Charles Joy 1920-1930s photograph was printed at Cootamundra

Kenneth Charles Joy 1920-1930s photograph was printed at Cootamundra

Post WWI  Years

Sometime after WWI Kenneth had joined the NSW Railways and then left again – his family must have been wondering if he was going to settle down and marry ? Whicih he finally did in 1936.  Browsing electoral roll information shows various  Kenneth Charles Joy’s employment details as follows …

  • 1930 – 1931 – Various residential locations around Sydney – Annandale – Enfield – Leichardt – NSWGR employee
  • 1932 – 1933 – Cootamundra – NSWGR employee
  • 1934 – Concord -Shopkeeper with his mother Edith Florence Joy – was this during the Depression Years ?
  • 1935 – 1936 – Penshurst – Hoist Driver – doesn’t mention NSWGR – was this during the Depression Years ?
  • 1937 – Casino – NSWGR employee
  • 1943 – Parkes – NSWGR employee
  • 1949 – Thirroul – NSWGR Railway Fireman
  • 1952 – Resident at Thirroul – working as Locomotive Driver for NSWGR at Unanderra at time of his death

From reading Chapter 4 of David Day’s biography of Ben Chifley, “Chifley, A Life” (2001), becoming a railway locomotive engineer driver would in some ways, be the pinnacle of career expectations for young men of limited education, who had joined the Railways.  He described how the starting point would be a Shop Boy or Shop Labourer in a Locomotive Shed, keeping everything clean in the Shed,  and then onto Oiler, and maybe Cleaner of the Locomotives who needed to have a working knowledge of the machines. Sometimes they might be acting Fireman and on occasions drive an engine to move it around the Shed. From there the path lay to Fireman finally Locomotive Engine Driver. There was a lot of study, examinations and tests for hearing and vision along the way. It took Ben Chifley 11 years to make it to Engine Driver.


Family Years and German Heritage  –  see Tollner Family Tree (acknowledging the research done by the Tollners in Australia and Ken’s daughter Kathleen)

By 1936 Ken had finally became engaged to, and then married, Marjorie Louisa Tollner – born to George and Sarah (Sadie) Tollner in 1915 at Temora.

Marjorie’s Tollner great grandfather Fritz aka Johann Friedrich Joachim Carl Tollner is believed to have emigrated from Mecklenberg, Germany to Australia in 1848.  Mecklenberg is in northern Germany along the Baltic Coast – east of Hamburg and north of Berlin – see more information. That area of Germany was part of the Grand Duchy of Mecklenberg Schwerin, that is now Mecklenberg-Vorpommern, and is represented by Angela Merkel, the current Chancellor of Germany in 2013. This area became part of East Germany after WWII prior to the reunification of Germany in 1990, whilst the eastern part of Mecklenberg became part of Poland after WWII. Tollner was sometimes spelled as Toellner, Thoellner and Thollner in Germany.

Fritz arrived at Port Adelaide on April 8th  on the President Smidt, having sailed from Bremen.  Thus Fritz had missed the political upheavals in Germany which saw thousands lose their lives. His occupation was listed as Labourer on the Ship’s List, and he had been born in Goldewin, Gustrow, Mecklenberg-Vorpommern, Germany in 1825.  Fritz  was the son of Joachim Friedrich Adolph Tollner and Anna Maria Dorothea Moller, a grandson of Christian Christoph Tollner and Elisabeth Hopner, and a great grandson of Jacob Tollner.

Soon after his 1848 arrival at Port Adelaide,  Fritz Tollner was serving as a Constable, and in 1849 he married  Catherina Maria Dorathea Schmidt known as Dorothea Schmidt. They took up farming in Lyndoch in the Barossa Valley where many Germans had settled, and their son Johann Fredrick Carl Tollner was born at Lyndoch  in 1856. Later they moved to Mount Gambier and to Natimuk Victoria where son Johann Frederick Carl would have son – George William (August Wilhem) Tollner born in Natimuk  in 1881. He was Marjorie’s father. Source : The Horsham Times September 22 1911 – also Adelaide Chronicle December 3 1927. The story of Fritz‘s early days in Australia is contained in “Second to None: A Story of the Rural Pioneers of Mt Gambier“, by Pam & Brian O’Connor.

A Genealogy Page on Tollners in Australia can be found here.

More information on Family History aspects of Mecklenberg can be found here – and also more on general history of Mecklenberg when it was part of Pomerania – here.

A Return to Thirroul

Ken and Marjorie’s marriage took place in Sydney. Great niece Kerrie worked with Marjorie at Bulli Lookout and remembers her really impish sense of humour and wicked wit – and reckons that this was probably really appreciated by Kenneth.

Kenneth and Marjorie Joy lived in King Street Thirroul next to the Rex Hotel, with their three children. They are all seen below with Ken‘s mother, Marjory’s parents and brother, Ken’s sister, as well as Ken & Marjory’s children and some of of his Callcott nieces and nephews (some of whom saw him as father figure after marriage breakdown of their parents).

Kenneth seemed to appreciate cars – seen here with his Uncle Arthur Webb‘s Morris – Arthur was the husband of Edith‘s younger sister Ida McKenzie Webb – known in the family as Aunty Jummy.

Kenneth Charles Joy in front of Arthur Webb's Austin early 1950s - Arthur was Ida McKenzie Hicks aka Aunty Jummie - youngest daughter of Henry Thomas Hicks and Mary Ann Hicks (McKenzie).

Kenneth Charles Joy in front of Uncle Arthur Webb’s Austin early 1950s – Arthur was the husband of Ida McKenzie Hicks aka Aunty Jummie – younger sister of Edith Joy (Ida was the 13th of the 14 children of Henry Thomas Hicks and Mary Ann Hicks (McKenzie) .

Uncle Arthur was the very successful Building Contractor, AF Webb,  and did major government building projects , and some private one’s too) – literally all over the state. In 1949 he was elected NSW President of the Master Builders Association. He seemed to be in there organising things like funerals etc for the family. No wonder he had a fancy car for the times !

Kenneth’s Passing

Kenneth Charles Joy died very unexpectedly at work in Unanderra in 1952 leaving Widow, Marjory Louisa Joy (nee Tollner), and three very young children – see Death Notices. His eldest child was only 12 years old at the time, and  Kenneth had predeceased his mother Edith Florence Joy who grieved greatly at the unexpected death of her only son. Edith passed away six years later, in 1958. Kenneth and Marjory would eventually have two granddaughters and six grandsons from their three children and great grand children are now arriving.

Grave Kenneth Charles Joy and mother in law Sarah (Sadie) Tolner Bulli General Cemetery

Grave Kenneth Charles Joy and mother in law Sarah (Sadie) Tollner Bulli General Cemetery – later George Tollner and Marjory Louisa Joy would join them.

JOY Kenneth Charles – May 19 1952 suddenly of 8 King Street

Thirroul most dearly loved husband of Marjory Louisa and dear father of Margaret Kenneth and Kathleen aged 50 years Peace perfect peace

JOY Kenneth Charles – May 19 1952 suddenly beloved son of Edith and the late Charles Joy of 5  Soudan Street Thirroul, dear brother of Molly, loved uncle of Ian (Bill) Joan Enid John Joy and Lola and great uncle of Mary Louise – aged 50 years In God s care

JOY Kenneth Charles – May 19 1952 suddenly beloved son in law of George William Tollner and the late Sadie Elizabeth Tollner, dear brother in law of George, loved uncle of Morris aged 50 years Peace be thine

Legacy stepped in to help and support his widow Marjory, as she faced bringing up her young family on her own. And Marjory would remain a strong supporter of Legacy, War Widows and Laurel Club for nearly 50 years until her own death in 2000. Marjory also found some part-time casual work as a cook at the Bulli Lookout Devonshire Tea Rooms with Thirroul-Bulli’s Chamberlain family. Years later, Kenneth‘s niece Joan later would share her shock and sadness at losing her favourite uncle, with her own children, and of how Marjory was her favourite maternal aunt. Subsequently Marjory insisted on Joan joining her at Legacy, War Widows and Laurel Club, on the death of Joan’s husband, nearly 40 years later.

Joy-Callcott branch of Hicks Family Reunion – 2013

On February 9 2013 a reunion of the Joy-Callcott branch of the Illawarra Hicks Family was held at St Augustine’s Bulli Anglican Church in Park Road Bulli when the remains of Joan Adams (Callcott) were interred – which was followed by a long lunch at the Woonona Bulli RSL. It was attended by Kenneth’s daughters Margaret and Kath, as well as his granddaughters, Julie & Marissa. Margaret and Julie are two of the last four remaining Hicks descendents that live in the Illawarra north of Bulli. Marissa and her family live in Bulli and Kath’s family live in the Dapto Koonawarra area.

Marissa Hando (nee Risk second cousin of Joan Adams) - Julie Risk (second cousin of Joan Adams) - Margaret Risk (nee Joy - cousin of Joan Adams) - Kath Johnson (nee Risk cousin of Joan Adams)

Kenneth’s Granddaughters Marissa Hando (nee Risk) & Julie Risk – & Daughters : Margaret Risk (nee Joy) – Kath Johnson (nee Joy)

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One Response to 2. Kenneth Charles

  1. Pingback: Finding the Family of Uncle Ern Hicks aka Youngest Son of Captain Henry Thomas Hicks JP | The Hicks Family

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